Hey everyone!

First of all, I want to say WOW to people who has lost lot of weight....Very inspiring!! Keep up the great work! A bit about me, then my question to you all (the inspiring people!) :)

Ok, I'm in my 2nd weight loss adventure. Yes I call it adventure. In 2000, I lost 50 pounds in 4 months. I know it's a lot.. I did it by running on treadmill. I have the genes where I unfortunately can easily gain weight but at the same time, can lose weight easily. I stabilized the weight loss and maintained it for 5 years. So I know I can do it again because of this experience.

Now, 6 years later (2006), I stopped exercise, restarted bad diet. Guess what? Gained the 50 pounds back.

When I lost 50 pounds in 2000, I only did cardio till I reached my goal, then started weight lifting (gained 5 solid pounds of muscle)....

Now, I have lost 10 pounds, need to lose 33 more pounds. Question is: should I do the same thing again: do Cardio only till I reach my goal... or add weight training NOW while losing weight? I haven't done the weight lifting with cardio while I'm losing weight. The reason I didn't do that is because I'm afraid of getting muscle on top of the fat. For those who have seen The Biggest Loser, you see them weight lifting AND also doing heavy cardio...so how come they didn't have muscle on top of the fat?

I also never did my abs while I was losing weight because I was afraid that if I do abs, it'll be muscle on top of fat. Anyone does abs while you are losing weight?

I would appreciate the advice and education. Cardio is not the problem for me. Diet is now good... I just want to get toned, but not sure when is the right time?

Thanks! :)

Mike

Hello and welcome to WLF. :D

I am by no means an "expert" but I am not sure if building muscle over fat is possible. If I am not mistaken, I believe muscle builds over the bone and fat builds over muscle. I am not sure about abdonimal muscles though considering there is no bone for the muscle to build over.

There are a lot of smart people on this great forum. I am sure SOMEONE will correct me if I am wrong. :D

Do spend some quality time reading around the forum... the answers to your questions are trhere- as well as valuable education to get you off the yo-yo track...

Something a personal trainer told me at golds gym last week was that i shoulder avoid "ab" training as it would hardern the muscles in my abs, and slow down any "visable" weight loss in that area of my body.

How true is that?

B.S. There are reasons why don't have to do isolated ab exercises, but thats not one of them.

Not an expert but here is my take on your questions- I have been WT for the last 7 months and know a couple things, or so I hope.

Question is: should I do the same thing again: do Cardio only till I reach my goal... or add weight training NOW while losing weight?
Once you read around the forum a bit you will see that the philosophy here is to wt while reducing calories to preserve the muscle you have. Read around for the explanation of such but that is the bottom line.
I haven't done the weight lifting with cardio while I'm losing weight. Should.
The reason I didn't do that is because I'm afraid of getting muscle on top of the fat. Not possible. Why would muscle grow on fat? And you more than likely will not be 'growing' any actual muscle anyway- more of maintaining it.
For those who have seen The Biggest Loser, you see them weight lifting AND also doing heavy cardio...so how come they didn't have muscle on top of the fat? Again- not possible. muscle is muscle and will not spontaneously grow on fat.

I also never did my abs while I was losing weight because I was afraid that if I do abs, it'll be muscle on top of fat. Read above
Anyone does abs while you are losing weight? I do and I am pretty sure most people here do, but why the focus on abs? Abs are one muscle group.

I just want to get toned, but not sure when is the right time?
'toned' is a product of fat loss. So you need to lose the fat to get the 'toned' look. That being said, you have the potential to look simply like a smaller version of your 'fat self' if you do not work to preserve the muscle you have now.


Oh an like Mal said- please read the stickies in this and the exercise forum. Huge amounts of information there for you.

Something a personal trainer told me at golds gym last week was that i shoulder avoid "ab" training as it would hardern the muscles in my abs, and slow down any "visable" weight loss in that area of my body.

How true is that?

I heard this also but have since dismissed it a bunk. I mean- is anyone not doing a bench press because there is fat there and the progress will not be clear?
avioding core/ab training is one of the worst things you can do- not overtrain them mind you, but simply avoiding it is tragic.

the logic is amazing- dont work a particular muscle group so that it will look better....
I need to become a personal trainer...
:D

I got to say i take everything i hear from the trainers at golds gym with a grain of salt. Some of them look fresh out of high school.

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the replies! I appreciate it! I'll read the threads in other posts. I"m newbie here.....

I haven't decided yet if I'll do weight lifting and ab training, but it's good to hear that some has been doing that and did lose weight.

I'll wondering (probably will be found in other threads although), if doing weight lifting and ab training while also doing cardio accelerate the weight loss. More faster than cardio alone?

Thanks again :)

Mike

In reply to Rowe's comment, it isnthe opposite. If you strengthen your core it will look like you have lost more weight than you actually have. When the core muscles get stronger it will be like you are sucking in your gut naturally even when you are relaxed giving an appearance that you have less body fat.

jaoust,

Thanks for your reply. So you do ab training while you are losing weight. Do you also do weight lifting as well?

Thanks! :)

Mike

You WILL lose muscle during a big amount of weight loss. I insist you do weight training to play some defense... abs included.



Here is my workout routine:

Monday:

Shoulders and triceps.

40 minutes on treadmill.

Tuesday:

Back and core.

40 minutes on treadmill.

Wednesday:

HIIT on stationary bike.

Thursday:

Chest, biceps, and core.

40 minutes on treadmill.

Friday:

Legs.

40 minutes on treadmill.

Saturday:

Full body weight training. (1 set per muscle group (20-25 reps))

40 minutes on treadmill.

Sunday:

40 mintues on treadmill.


I found a great weight training routine that seems to be working great for me. Go to yahoo search engine and search "Doug's Mega Cutting Routine"... it is on muscleandstrength.com. I tweaked mine a bit, however.

Good luck! :D

For lack of better questions....

What does this 'routine' bring to the table?

No days off & cardio every day seem to me to be ripe for overtraining and simple exhaustion. Why do you feel cardio needs to be done every day?

Why do you feel that a body part split works better than several full body workouts per week? What is gained by working out each muscle group once a week?
Lastly- what is the theory behind Saturday? 1 set per muscle group and 20-25 reps? that really seems like overkill to me.

interested Brian is interested. :D

In reply to Rowe's comment, it isnthe opposite. If you strengthen your core it will look like you have lost more weight than you actually have. When the core muscles get stronger it will be like you are sucking in your gut naturally even when you are relaxed giving an appearance that you have less body fat.

er?

I really dont understand this. Where is this information from?

Yes I do weights while training. Usually 2 full body workouts per week, with single sets of 15RM. I'll do two different exercises for some muscle groups. eg. for back doing seated row, and lat pulldowns. Chest bench press and pectoral fly. A typical workout week would be like this:

monday: Full Body Workout + 30 min cardio

Tuesday: Rest or 30 min moderate intensity cardio

Wednesday: Full Body Workout + 30 min cardio

Thursday: Rest

Friday: Hockey or HIIT

Saturday: rest

Sunday: 60 min cardio


Everything else is diet and don't forget to get enough sleep! Cheers

I always did weight training as part of any weight loss routine. Its more interesting then only doing cardio and IME seems to speed results. (both visibly and on the scale). I'm a short woman with not the best gene pool in the world but have been able to lose and maintain over 300lbs lost (gain and loose 80 per pregnancy. sic.)

a good routine has got to have all componets if you are in it for a life change:

nutrition, recovery, weight, stretch, cardio

not nec. in that order:waving:

Hey everyone,

Based on some people's replies about doing weight training and cardio at the same time, I'm now thinking of doing both and also doing ab...

Now my next question:

I have heard that if you do cardio first then do weight training in a single day, that's geared mostly for weight loss

If you do weight training, then do cardio in a single day, that's geared mostly for gaining muscles?

Does the matter of picking cardio first or picking weight training affect the quality of losing weight?

Thanks! :)

Mike

Hey everyone,

Forgot to add this, so another post :)

As for weight lifting during the weight loss process, are we to lift light weight at high rep? or are we to lift heavy weight at low rep?

I consider high rep (12-15)

I consider med rep (8-12)

I consider heavy rep (2-6)

Any advice would be great as always! :)

I know toning is for high rep, muscular is sorta med rep... strength for rep for the bulking up process, but I'm not certain how does that work in the weight loss process.

I know how to lift because I have had gained 5 solid of muscles after I lost my 1st 50 pounds in 2000, so that's not a problem about how, but totally have forgotten about how light or how heavy should I lift in regards to WEIGHT LOSS...

Gracias! ;)

Mike

6 of one half dozen of another.

It really comes down to personal preference. I personally do cardio after wt bc I do not want to be too wiped to wt effectively. That is not to say that is the right way to do it- it is just my personal preference.

The order you do cardio and wt in has no effect on the type of impact it is going to have on your body IMO.

Hey, bigguy

So you do heavy rep for WT?

Mike

This thread makes me want to bang my head right off the got dang wall.

Read the stickies. They are there for a reason.

And stop worrying about adding muscle.

This thread makes me want to bang my head right off the got dang wall.

Read the stickies. They are there for a reason.

And stop worrying about adding muscle.


Nobody is wanting to add muscle. We are just deciding which route to take for weight training during weight loss.

I know nobody is wanting to add muscle.

Believe me, I actually have half decent reading comprehension.

People are, however, worried about putting on muscle... as in, they don't want to do that.

And the fact remains that most every single question that was asked in this thread has been answered in the stickies in more depth than you're most likely to get from someone in this very thread.

Steve,

I'm trying to find the particular sticky called, "Weight Loss and Exercise" that I believe u (Steve) have mentioned in about your "rant sticky"...Where can I find this particular Weight Loss and Exercise sticky? Thanks....

I'm in process of reading stickies now :) I'm sure I'll ask questions when I am done with reading them :)

Gracias!

Mike

Steve,

My personal experience is that.. I have been overweight to skinny in 2000 when I lost 50 pounds. That was doing only for cardio. It worked for me, then as I started weight lifting and gained 5 solid pounds. I would say I was toned...

However, this time, I'm curious to know what my body would like if I undergo cardio/weight training at the same time. Would it be toned as I was in 2000 or would my body even be more toned than I was in 2000 at the end of my goal?

That is one of the reasons why I asked these questions :)

Thanks!

Mike

Hey everyone,

I just found the sticky in weight and exercise thread!! So never mind about the request above, although :)

Thanks!

Mike

Hey everyone,

I just found the sticky in weight and exercise thread!! So never mind about the request above, although :)

Thanks!

Mike


Where did you find it @? I have been looking, but no luck.

Go down to where you see the thread (bottom of the screen) that says weight and exercise? Open that thread, then you'll see the sticky on the top of the screen in that particular thread.

Mike

Start with this sticky:

http://weight-loss.fitness.com/topic/11337-words-wisdom.html

Start with this sticky:

http://weight-loss.fitness.com/topic/11337-words-wisdom.html

Thanks a lot Steve. That page was full of info. I think every new member should look at that page. It answers a lot of the questions that one would have when starting.

Not to mention it would probably make less of a hassle for you. :D

I actually don't mind answering questions. It provides me joy in life. It's just much better speaking with someone after they've taken the time to at least read what's been presented as foundational advice/information.

It's hard to answer questions and lead someone in the right direction when they don't have said foundation.

Thanks for reading the thread.

Hey everyone/Steve,

I have decided to start weight training....

Based on reading stickies, seems like full-body training for 3 times a week seems to be good...then 5 days of cardio... 30 minutes...starting from steady to mixed to HIT.

I have a question about ab training. I couldn't find information on how often to do core exercises/ab training and when to do it? on cardio days only or ?

Thanks! :)

Mike

Do the core training when you do your full body workouts. Do the abs last as your core stabilizes you for all other exercises. You don't want a weak core for the rest of your workout!

What do you mean by core training?

I'm assuming a bunch of exotic crunches, right?

Ok, so core area of the body consists of:

lower back
obliques (aka famous love handles)
lower abs
upper abs

Is that correct? Other areas of the body that I miss?

Makes sense about doing abs on full body workout.. I think I'll do the core exercises first then weight lifting, not last, because with core areas of the body being more "stabilized" will help the weight training.

When I lost weight in 2000, my body got smaller, not toned.. Just smaller... only got toned after I stopped losing weight and started lifting. Now with my new plan of doing weight lifting during the weight loss process with caloric deficit, I'm curious to know how my body would react to the combination. I have no idea on what the results would be because I haven't done the combination at the same time.

I'm also curious to know if there are some people who has done weight loss doing cardio only THEN at another time, done with cardio and weight training. We know that body get smaller when we did cardio only, but I am interested in hearing your experience on how your body reacts when you combine both methods and compare that with your body when u only did cardio.

Thanks! :)

Mike

Ok, so core area of the body consists of:

lower back
obliques (aka famous love handles)
lower abs
upper abs

Is that correct? Other areas of the body that I miss?

Multifidus, internal oblique, transverse abdominus, rectus abdominus, spinal erectors, external oblique, quadratus lumborum and lats.

There are more depending on who, how or why you're defining the core.

No, there are no upper and lower abs.

Makes sense about doing abs on full body workout.. I think I'll do the core exercises first then weight lifting, not last, because with core areas of the body being more "stabilized" will help the weight training.

I'd stick with doing them last. You don't want a fatigued core when you're doing big, compound exercises that require a lot of stabilization from the core. Surefire way to hurt your back.

When I lost weight in 2000, my body got smaller, not toned.. Just smaller... only got toned after I stopped losing weight and started lifting.

This means one of two things.

a) you didn't lose enough fat to expose the muscle you had

b) you lost a lot of muscle along with your fat which made it hard to obtain that 'toned' look

I guess you could throw a (c) in there too, that being a combo of (a) and (b).

Now with my new plan of doing weight lifting during the weight loss process with caloric deficit, I'm curious to know how my body would react to the combination.

Better muscle maintenance. Increased strength and functionality.

I have no idea on what the results would be because I haven't done the combination at the same time.

You're worrying to much on the outcomes and not enough on the doing.

I'm also curious to know if there are some people who has done weight loss doing cardio only THEN at another time, done with cardio and weight training.

Yes, of course there are people who have done this.

Why are you curious about it?

We know that body get smaller when we did cardio only, but I am interested in hearing your experience on how your body reacts when you combine both methods and compare that with your body when u only did cardio.

This is discussed ad nauseam in the stickies, mind you.

Weight lifting provides a strong stimulus to preserve muscle while dieting. Without it, the closer you get to an ideal weight the higher your chances of losing muscle... especially if you don't supplement your program with weight training and adequate protein consumption.

However you can lose weight by creating a deficit that comes from anything. Reduced food intake. Inreased caloric expenditure. A combo.

On the 'increased caloric expenditure' side of things... you could do more weight training, more cardio, more general movement... whatever.

You seem to be searching for answers that don't matter given all the data that's been presented to you or answers that have already been answered a dozen times in the stickies.

There is a difference between the procecces of losing weight and losing fat while preserving muscle.

It really is that simple.

Hey everyone,

Today I started weight lifting... Yay! Feels so good... I used to weight lift a lot in 2000, and stopped three years ago... I did "condition" myself today, meaning light weights and 15 reps... on Friday, will try Steve's recommendation for weight training for weight loss.. That is, heavy weight with 5 rep... 3 times...

Also did abs as well after weight training... then did cardio... 30 minutes of alternating 6.0 mph then 4.0 mph (3 minutes each)...

What did I learned today? I'm OUT OF SHAPE!!! Definitely need to start conditioning myself.....

Steve, to answer your question... Why am I curious? Well, for my history, I always have done cardio only... so was a smaller version of my "fat self" when I lost 50 pounds in 2000. I'm excited to see how this time my body will look like (with combination of weight training/cardio DURING the weight loss process). So to HELP my motivation, I would love to hear other people's experiences of both methods (doing only cardio, then at a future time, doing cardio/weight training).....Makes sense?

Question about "fueling for workout"..... I know we are to have caloric deficit during the weight loss process along with a combination of weight training/cardio. I'm wondering that I have noticed I have run out of "fuel". How can we get more "fuel/energy" to do the workouts if we have caloric deficit? Example: Water is great, but Vitamin Water has more energy and more calories. Vitamin Water helps me go through workouts more than Water alone.

Thanks! :)

Mike

Eat a balanced meal before hitting the gym.

Thanks Steve and others for your help/replies :)

Question:

Now I know the key to a good weight loss is to have a caloric deficit and doing that with a combination of a heavy weight lifting/cardio... Heavy weight lifting (5 rep for 3 times)....

Now question is: do we need to add weights to our ab training as well? Or no weights at all when it comes to ab/core training?

Thanks! :)

Mike

Thanks Steve and others for your help/replies :)

Question:

Now I know the key to a good weight loss is to have a caloric deficit and doing that with a combination of a heavy weight lifting/cardio... Heavy weight lifting (5 rep for 3 times)....

You don't *need* 5 reps for 3 sets.

There's no particular protocol that's right for everyone. For instance, someone with 100 lbs to lose shouldn't train the same as someone with 10 lbs to lose.

Now question is: do we need to add weights to our ab training as well? Or no weights at all when it comes to ab/core training?

Not all core training is created equal, so it's really impossible to answer your question.

weight lifting will not slow fat burning. thats just crazy. I agree with lohbahl. Your fat cells are located on top of your muscle. You cannot build muscle on fat. Also you cannot turn fat into muscle. that is a myth.I think everyone will agree that the main goal is to tighten the body. To do that you must burn fat and build muscle. Weight lifing will also help you burn fat since you are burning calories while you lift. If you want to look better you need to lift weight along with your weight loss routine. As far as ab routines slowing down weight loss........I've never heard of that, one would think building the stomach muscle would aid in weight loss is anything.

weight lifting will not slow fat burning. thats just crazy. I agree with lohbahl. Your fat cells are located on top of your muscle. You cannot build muscle on fat. Also you cannot turn fat into muscle. that is a myth.

If you read the thread in its entirety before responding, you'd realize we've concluded this.

I've struggled with reading since i was young. I can barely read Steve, Give me a break!