Yup I'm crossing the line...politics anyone? Out of curiousity who do people plan on voting for? Yes I do realize for some I might as well be asking how many people you have slept with....but I'm curious now with the nomination

Obama Mama here.

I'll be going the McCain route

I will be going McCain but just because he is the lesser of 2 evils.

I feel like that's been everyones feelings the last few elections...lesser of two evils...kinda sad I wish I could have seen or been around for times when there were really great inspiring canidates

A friend I have from Holland sent me this email a few months ago. I thought it was interesting to see his take being in another country.

*Language Warning*


We in Holland cannot figure out why you are even bothering to hold an
election in the US.

On one side, you have a bitch who is a lawyer, married to a lawyer,
campaigning against a lawyer who is married to a bitch who is a lawyer.

On the other side, you have a true war hero married to a woman with a
huge chest who owns a beer distributorship.

Is there a contest here?

I feel like that's been everyones feelings the last few elections...lesser of two evils...kinda sad I wish I could have seen or been around for times when there were really great inspiring canidates

Well I believe the access to information today makes that harder and harder. It is hard to be inspiring when so much info is available. On the surface these 2 candidates seem inspiring. A former war hero and a black, charismatic speaker. However when you look a little closer you find that being a war hero is about all McCain has going for him and that despite all of Obama's talk of change and new ways. In a 20 year political career, if you look at his legislative record he has not really done anything but be a line towing party member. Not to mention he has some pretty shady associations.

Yeah the biggest issue with Obama is the lack of experience. I can see him being a better canidate in a few more elections given of course he proves himself in the positive change arena.

Neither for me, I can't vote for either and still be able to sleep at night. I'm not willing to put up with another minute of republican reign and my gut tells me Obama isn't right for the job. I don't think it will matter because I have doubts that America will elect an African American president so I'd look for JM to win. I'll eat crow if it doesn't happen that way but I'll be looking for Hilary to say "I told you so" in Nov.

I'm Canadian but I think Obama will be better for the world as a whole. I hope he wins.

I'd be curious to hear some of the indepth why's to ppl's choices

I'm Canadian, so I only have a passing interest in the election, but with that preacher Obama is so found of saying some pretty crazy things, I would have to question whether Obama is really the best candidate.

I don't know the first thing about McCain other than the fact that he tried to ban Mixed Martial Arts. Since I'm a huge MMA fan, I wouldn't want to vote for him either if I were American.

These aren't pivotal issues for candidacy; however, their choices lead me to question their judgment. How could anyone be comfortable voting for someone whose judgment is seriously lacking?

Where's Ralph Nader? lol jk

I guess my big issue is I wish more people (especially my generation) would care. It bothers me that my generation has the mtv effect vote for so and so because mtv said so or it's trendy with this celeb. I don't know maybe I'm weird and take things too seriously in certain areas but people have this belief that politics don't effect them as much as they actually do. My biggest pet peeve is when someone complains about the way something is and then you can simply ask...did you vote? Chances are they didn't. I'm not saying one vote changes the world but something is better than nothing. If enough of those my vote doesn't matter people voted...it would matter. Yes I know I'm ranting. :rant:

Obama -- I think he's definetely the one!

Why I like Obama...he's new, charismatic, candid and when he speaks I believe him. he publicly denounced the reverend...
McCain = another 4 years of Bush style politics. nuff said
Clinton = too much baggage, not believable, seems more like a same old same old....circa the 90s.

he publicly denounced the reverend...Honestly, that's all he can do in his situation. Unfortunately, I don't think anything can reverse the fact that he found enough respect for the reverend to quote him in his book and attend his church for years. It's a valid issue, not in the sense that Obama himself may believe in those same things exactly, but he has, for years, supported a man who holds those beliefs and that would indicate he has some sort of interest in the reverend's ideas.

I'm not saying McCain would be any better, nor does it really matter to me anyway, since I'm Canadian, but I don't think the reverend dealy can be swept under the carpet.

Obama is a great speaker and nothing more. The media to this point has chosen to overlook all his dirt and I am not sure how long that will be the case.

The whole reverand Wright thing was ignored for almost a year and was forced into coverage.

Obama is a "new" kind of candidate only in the sense that I can't remember another candidate who has managed to have close relationships with admitted and non-repentant terrorists (Ayers and Dorhn). Radical , hate speaking, and racist religious leaders (Wright, Farakhan) and as if kanoodling around with people who either hate America, hate white people or both wasnt enough. You can also throw in the the fact that he is #8 on The Judicial Watch's ten most corrupt politicans list. His "non-profit" Chicago hospital is considered one of the most corrupt non-profit organizations in the country. Throw in a Federal corruption trial for a real estate scandal for good measure.

Yeah, that is exactly the kind of change we could use in the White House.

One thing that bothers me when people harp on McCain for being "for the war" is that unlike most people who say that...he's actually paid the price personally when it comes to war. He knows the true cost. People compare withdrawing the troops to leaving Vietnam when in fact it's very different. Vietnam had some sort of structure to fall back on. We completely destroyed the infastructure to Iraq. Do I think we can leave and have it be a happy ending in the future? No but can contribute something to aid the transition. I think once there is a major troop reduction Iraq will enter a civil war. A brief study of history is all you need to figure that one out. How soon people forget that even our own country had a civil war after fighting for independence. I believe he also understands the sensitve nature of the situation. While I don't agree with his initial vote to go into Iraq I do support him after the fact. People are too busy debating who voted for what based on faulty intel when fact of the matter is that can't be changed and we need to deal with the situation at hand.

Neither. There is no lesser of 2 evils, they are equally bad. I fear for America.

Neither. There is no lesser of 2 evils, they are equally bad. I fear for America.

I agree.. :(

reasons would be interesting....everyone interprets information differently. I always found it really interesting how you can take one piece of information and two different opinions are formed

Neither. There is no lesser of 2 evils, they are equally bad. I fear for America.

I disagree. Even if you aren't enthusiastic about either of them the fact remains that they will make, or at least be in position to make decisions that will affect your life. I don't buy the whole "I don't like either so I am not going to vote" This is the leader of the free world we are talking about, not American Idol.

I disagree. Even if you aren't enthusiastic about either of them the fact remains that they will make, or at least be in position to make decisions that will affect your life. I don't buy the whole "I don't like either so I am not going to vote" This is the leader of the free world we are talking about, not American Idol.

lol loved it....

I disagree. Even if you aren't enthusiastic about either of them the fact remains that they will make, or at least be in position to make decisions that will affect your life. I don't buy the whole "I don't like either so I am not going to vote" This is the leader of the free world we are talking about, not American Idol.

After reading that it came out a little snippier than I intended. busy91 and Aleeluh I didn't mean that as an insult. I can really sympathize with that position is as that I dont feel that either of them comes close to representing my political views and/or opinions. I would like to encourage you to do a little research in addition to what you read and hear in the mainstream media. Imagine if we went about losing weight using those sources? While I don't see either as the next great President they do have oposing views on several different issues and I am sure if you did a little fact checking or tuned in to one of the upcoming debates, that you will find atleast one or two issues that you will agree with one over the other on.

Also don't forget that the next President (especially if he goes 8 yrs.) will have a major affect on the Supreme Court as we have a few Justices getting a little long in the tooth. That is one of the more over looked but most important duties of a President. McCain atleast has promised to elect conservative judges and if you go by Obama's voting recors we can assume he will be supporting much more liberal judges. Look over some of the Supreme Court rulings and see which side you would land on.

One thing that bothers me when people harp on McCain for being "for the war" is that unlike most people who say that...he's actually paid the price personally when it comes to war. He knows the true cost. People compare withdrawing the troops to leaving Vietnam when in fact it's very different. Vietnam had some sort of structure to fall back on. We completely destroyed the infastructure to Iraq. Do I think we can leave and have it be a happy ending in the future? No but can contribute something to aid the transition. I think once there is a major troop reduction Iraq will enter a civil war. A brief study of history is all you need to figure that one out. How soon people forget that even our own country had a civil war after fighting for independence. I believe he also understands the sensitve nature of the situation. While I don't agree with his initial vote to go into Iraq I do support him after the fact. People are too busy debating who voted for what based on faulty intel when fact of the matter is that can't be changed and we need to deal with the situation at hand.

Regardless of who's elected, the US is never leaving Iraq.....ever.

I completely agree on the importance of this election. It may not be the ideal canidates but when in life do you come across a situation with ideal choices? Never. What does one do in those situations? You go through the pros and cons.

Regardless of who's elected, the US is never leaving Iraq.....ever.

At one point we will withdraw troops...could I see it being something similiar to the way US troops are in Japan today much later in the future? yes. At one point though Americans have to realize that you cannot force democracy on a country. Democracy has to be a grassroots effort. The people have to demand it much like we did for the founding of our own country.

I guess my big issue is I wish more people (especially my generation) would care. It bothers me that my generation has the mtv effect vote for so and so because mtv said so or it's trendy with this celeb. I don't know maybe I'm weird and take things too seriously in certain areas but people have this belief that politics don't effect them as much as they actually do. My biggest pet peeve is when someone complains about the way something is and then you can simply ask...did you vote? Chances are they didn't. I'm not saying one vote changes the world but something is better than nothing. If enough of those my vote doesn't matter people voted...it would matter. Yes I know I'm ranting. :rant:

From what I gather from the few young people I talk politics with it's like this...

It's not that they don't care. They care what impacts them, which you express here. That's why they bitch when they're not happy. But what does voting really prove?

You get two schlups up on stage slinging negativity at one another and trying their best not to come across as a used car salesman but always seeming worse. It's hard to trust any politician nowadays.

A vote can go either way.

Even if that one vote mattered to a serious degree, shit is still shit. If someone asked me to put either a soft piece of shit in my mouth or a hard piece of shit in my mouth I'd probably punch them in the face and walk away.

No shit gets eaten just like no vote gets cast.

These aren't exactly my viewpoints but it's more of what I gathered from a diverse, yet relatively small group I've interacted with.

I'm voting for JM, personally. But that doesn't make me happy.

ETA: I just finished reading this thread and it looks like some here feel the same as the people I've chatted with on the subject

I disagree. Even if you aren't enthusiastic about either of them the fact remains that they will make, or at least be in position to make decisions that will affect your life. I don't buy the whole "I don't like either so I am not going to vote" This is the leader of the free world we are talking about, not American Idol.


Didn't once say at all that I wasn't voting. Don't assume.
Just because I don't like either candidate doesn't mean I'm not going to vote for one of them when the time comes. I know the importance of voting, especially since minorities and women couldn't always vote.

:patriot:

After reading that it came out a little snippier than I intended. busy91 and Aleeluh I didn't mean that as an insult. Also don't forget that the next President (especially if he goes 8 yrs.) will have a major affect on the Supreme Court as we have a few Justices getting a little long in the tooth. That is one of the more over looked but most important duties of a President. McCain atleast has promised to elect conservative judges and if you go by Obama's voting recors we can assume he will be supporting much more liberal judges. Look over some of the Supreme Court rulings and see which side you would land on.

This is why they say don't discuss politics. But don't worry, I have thick skin.

And in all honesty, As long as I've been a voter and a worker, No president has improved the quality of my life. Bush just made it worse than it was.
:banghead:

I hate to be the one to do the put things in perspective....we can complain all we want about how bad the choices are but at the end of the day I'm thankful there are choices. There are so many places in the world where people die every day for the right to do something as simple as check a box with a name. Not one single person is perfect so how can anyone truly expect perfection from a group of people? People in this forum have taken a stand with their health. They don't like the way something is so they work like hell to change it. That concept applies elsewhere as well.

This is question for some of you folks that could vote back in the 80s and earlier than that...

Were elections always like this? This will be my second presidential election. I can't say that any earlier than that I really paid attention (or remember) how the candidates were perceived or liked. I only have perspective from two elections. And I don't believe that reading history can truly capture how diverse or unified people feel when it's happening. So when history reviews great elections or electing the great Presidents... were they really that? Or were they OK guys who made it through and didn't screw too much up, and had a couple of positives here or there?

I think you get that feel looking back at history though or better yet talking to people. For example when JFK died the outcry and the way the country mourned. If Bush died you wouldn't see that kind of reaction...even with the last few presidents I don't think there would have been that kind of reaction.

This is why they say don't discuss politics. But don't worry, I have thick skin.

And in all honesty, As long as I've been a voter and a worker, No president has improved the quality of my life. Bush just made it worse than it was.
:banghead:

Thanks for the thick skin. As for your other point, I understand what you are saying but since I havent made you mad yet I will test that thick skin a little further.

One thing we need to understand is that all we have for comparison is what DID happen. We never know what WOULD HAVE. My point being (and this will address Steve's shit is shit view as well. I am going to assume that you were alive in 1984. In Reagan's last term he ended the Cold War. Would Mondale have been able to? Maybe. Would it have taken longer? Who knows. Now I am not saying that Reagan saved the world from nuclear destruction but I am saying that we now know that we were a whole hell of a lot closer than anyone believed we were at the time. So who knows?
People say that one candidate is no different than the other. True to some extent. Look at it this way though.

Bush signed into law a $1.35 trillion tax cut program in 2001. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, to overthrow the Taliban, destroy Al-Qaeda, and to capture Osama bin Laden, Bush ordered an invasion of Afghanistan and announced in October 2001 a global War on Terrorism. Bush signed the No Child Left Behind Act in 2002. In March 2003, Bush along with the UNO and Congress asserted Iraq was in possession of weapons of mass destruction and ordered the invasion of Iraq.
Thats just his 1st term. He also seated 3 Justices, stopped stem cell research and gave me a tax rebate that I am still waiting on.
Now, Gore may have done a better job because some of those things havent worked out so well but I do believe that it is inarguable that he would have done the EXACT same job.
If Kerry had won he said he would end the wars. That may have worked out wonderful or it may have been too soon and we may have suffered numerous homeland attacks by now and be begging for McCain so that he would send troops back over instead of looking for someone to bring them home.

Every and I do mean every President has affected America's economy, safety, and foreign policies. Just because they are all corrupt, elitist, crooked old men does not mean that they will all make the exact same decisions and no one knows the future.

I hate to be the one to do the put things in perspective....we can complain all we want about how bad the choices are but at the end of the day I'm thankful there are choices. There are so many places in the world where people die every day for the right to do something as simple as check a box with a name. Not one single person is perfect so how can anyone truly expect perfection from a group of people? People in this forum have taken a stand with their health. They don't like the way something is so they work like hell to change it. That concept applies elsewhere as well.

Right or wrong I was simply elaborating on what I've found the perspective of most young voters to be in my social network. It's not a matter of putting things into perspective. It's how they feel.

I 100% agree edco, and that's why I vote.

The shit is shit argument only flies if that shit doesn't have an effect on you after you walk away from it.

In the case of the President.... it does.

Right or wrong I was simply elaborating on what I've found the perspective of most young voters to be in my social network. It's not a matter of putting things into perspective. It's how they feel.

Oh I get it and come across it all the time as well. I guess it's part of the "me generation syndrome"

I think it's a matter of not seeing the big picture.

I only have one friend (out of the handful that I grew up with, so we're talking a pool of 10 people and this one I didn't even grow up with) who votes, sadly. His brother was blown up twice in the marines in Iraq and lived to talk about it. He votes b/c he understands the impact the freedom to vote has on not only this country, but his life personally.

Most people have trouble making that 'personal' connection so see it as futile, it seems.

I suppose that's part of my connection to it. I grew up around the military and all my friends that I grew up with are active duty most with multiple tours underneath their belt. I had planned the same career path and was supposed to attend the AF Academy but got sick and with that particular illness in my medical history couldn't serve active duty. I had this one friend in middle school...she moved here from Kosovo...the stories she used to tell...still make me shiver.

Thanks for the thick skin. As for your other point, I understand what you are saying but since I havent made you mad yet I will test that thick skin a little further.

One thing we need to understand is that all we have for comparison is what DID happen. We never know what WOULD HAVE. My point being (and this will address Steve's shit is shit view as well. I am going to assume that you were alive in 1984. In Reagan's last term he ended the Cold War. Would Mondale have been able to? Maybe. Would it have taken longer? Who knows. Now I am not saying that Reagan saved the world from nuclear destruction but I am saying that we now know that we were a whole hell of a lot closer than anyone believed we were at the time. So who knows?
People say that one candidate is no different than the other. True to some extent. Look at it this way though.



I was alive in '84, one year shy of voting though and being in HS I couldn't care less about Regan or politics. I do think Reagan was one of our most decent presidents, and a lot of good happened during his terms.


Every and I do mean every President has affected America's economy, safety, and foreign policies. Just because they are all corrupt, elitist, crooked old men does not mean that they will all make the exact same decisions and no one knows the future.


I think most presidents whether they are Reps or Dems, black or white, male or female work off of a similar mindset and a lot of situations will be dealt with in a very similar fashion. You are right that no one knows the future, life is full of 'what if's'.

This is question for some of you folks that could vote back in the 80s and earlier than that...

Were elections always like this? This will be my second presidential election. I can't say that any earlier than that I really paid attention (or remember) how the candidates were perceived or liked. I only have perspective from two elections. And I don't believe that reading history can truly capture how diverse or unified people feel when it's happening. So when history reviews great elections or electing the great Presidents... were they really that? Or were they OK guys who made it through and didn't screw too much up, and had a couple of positives here or there?
there has always been mudslinging and name calling and politicians telling you what the other person isn't going to do or has done rather than telling you what they are going to do... it's part of poltics i think ... (when you have some time - google "Mike Dukakis and Willie Horton"

Politics is ugly... and i think very few of the "great" presidents were considered "great" while they were in office.. Time and distance has a way of changing perception.

The past few elections -have been - intriguing - when you don't know election night - who won...

It disgusts me that voter turn out is so low in our country. Does anyone remember the first election in Iraq? People were literally dieing to vote. I can't remember the turn out % but it was ridiculously high. People have died for our right to vote. If you are so put off by the candidates that you wont vote for either then do a right in for Mickey Mouse but at least go to the polls.

It disgusts me that voter turn out is so low in our country. Does anyone remember the first election in Iraq? People were literally dieing to vote. I can't remember the turn out % but it was ridiculously high. People have died for our right to vote. If you are so put off by the candidates that you wont vote for either then do a right in for Mickey Mouse but at least go to the polls.

Yup that's my whole thing. A lot of people fought so I could vote, so I do. If I don't like any of the candidates (like this year), I'll vote for my party. My son will be 18 next year, I'm going to DRAG him with me to whatever election occurs. Of course, I probably won't have to, he is really into politics.

It disgusts me that voter turn out is so low in our country.
about a year or two ago I had found the exact info from the census records (they're available but I'm too damn lazy to look)

the number is appallingly low - like less than 75 percent of people who are able to register to vote - Do not register. That right to vote is taken for granted...

and an even smaller percentage of those who are registered to vote - don't vote..

Everyone has a strong opinion the poltical system - but very very few raise their voice by voting or getting involved in the process.


Though, I'm not sure I want some people who think reality televisionis high drama - deciding my future -I wouldn't mind an iq test before people were allowed to vote :)

there has always been mudslinging and name calling and politicians telling you what the other person isn't going to do or has done rather than telling you what they are going to do... it's part of poltics i think ... (when you have some time - google "Mike Dukakis and Willie Horton"

Politics is ugly... and i think very few of the "great" presidents were considered "great" while they were in office.. Time and distance has a way of changing perception.

The past few elections -have been - intriguing - when you don't know election night - who won...

Reagan is a good example. I remember him getting plenty of crap. His own son even did a special on HBO blasting him. Now he is considered one of the greats. I have also read that Lincoln was considered pretty pathetic until later because even the people on his side thought he mishandled everything. The civil war is fascinating to me if you dig deep.

Of course, I probably won't have to, he is really into politics
That makes me happy that young folks are taking an interest.. there's another forum that I fight to the death - i mean discuss politics on... whre we're seeing younger folks come on -with well researched opinions =they might not always agree with my own -but I'm thrilled that they've spent the time researching and then forming an opinion.. .and not talking the knee jerk approach that is all too common..

I can't wait to see the debates....I think they're going to be pretty intense.

Not voting is basically the same as taking something for granted. We've gotten so used to this idea of equality and that everyone votes that we've forgotten it was paid for with lives. It's still being paid for with lives. By no means do I think the USA is the end all and be all. It's just sad that it takes a catestrophic event ie. 9-11 to get people to pay attention. I guess that's the downside to a relatively high quality of life compared with other parts of the world...you forget there's more to it than getting your pizza delivered in 30 minutes or less.

can't wait to see the debates....I think they're going to be pretty intense.

Doubtful - they will be very scripted with the candidates having the questions a head of time and the candidates staff spending oodles of time working ont he right answer to not offend someone...

Politics = Entertainment - and it's very well rehearsed

Doubtful - they will be very scripted with the candidates having the questions a head of time and the candidates staff spending oodles of time working ont he right answer to not offend someone...

Politics = Entertainment - and it's very well rehearsed

Depends....there was a challenge to do a few townhall style debates...if that's the case...gloves pretty much come off

hey
I know of a great bridge for sale.. cheap

Though, I'm not sure I want some people who think reality televisionis high drama - deciding my future -I wouldn't mind an iq test before people were allowed to vote :)


A-Fucking-Men

same requirement would be nice for procreating

Doubtful - they will be very scripted with the candidates having the questions a head of time and the candidates staff spending oodles of time working ont he right answer to not offend someone...

Politics = Entertainment - and it's very well rehearsed

Don't be so sure. I watched a few of the Obama/Hilary debates and they got pretty heated. McCain and Romney got after each other a bit to.I will also add that while Obama is a talented rally speaker his debate skill are actually pretty lousy. Inexperience maybe? I thought Hilary pretty much owned him in every debate I saw. I was a bit surprised that McCain challenged him to "town hall" debates because Obama actually seems much more comfortable in those settings. I know he challenged him for financial reasons, I am just surprised he chose that format. McCain is good in debates though so maybe he thinks he can get a quick KO.

And posting on a forum, lol.

And posting on a forum, lol.

No way! That would take out all of the fun. Not to mention: How would I spend all of my down time at work?

Ok, so could simply delegate a 'playground section' of the forum where certain people aren't aloud out of.

That's where all the fun can be had.

And posting on a forum, lol.

I'm going to second that motion (hope I pass the IQ test lol)

Your AVI is enough to get you in. :p

Your AVI is enough to get you in. :p

Ah yes my tummy I miss it and damnit I'm getting it back lol Then a new one is going up

and we obviously couldn't have you monitor that new rule....you'd be rigging IQ tests with a few flashes :Angel_anim:

My motto is "skin gets you in."

Hahahaha!

I'm obviously kidding. That rampant ignorance seen on the web disgusts me and if I thought I'd actually get members to sign up to a forum with such regulation, I'd have it on my own up and coming forum.

*sigh* say it ain't so! Well I'd sign up for the beta version keep us posted lol

Ok, so could simply delegate a 'playground section' of the forum where certain people aren't aloud out of.

That's where all the fun can be had.

Sign me up! That sounds fun. Isn't that what OT forums are for though? Here are some front page threads in another forum I post in just for fun.

"My observations on the appearence of posteriors in the 1980s"

"Can you choke out a dog?"

"Goth's caught porking in a confession booth"

The sad thing is that that forum probably has some of the most intelligent posters I have ever seen on it. So I don't think the IQ rule will work.

common sense test anyone?

The sad thing is that that forum probably has some of the most intelligent posters I have ever seen on it. So I don't think the IQ rule will work.
Fark used to have some of the most intelligent posters having some of the most inane discussions - often times -about boobies... but there'd be a good discussion built in - there's a huge difference between web ignorance and stupidity than being stupid for entertainment purposes...

I've debated on too many different forums and the web has r eally made people dumb and unable to research the f acts of something and form their own unbiased opinion.

stupid funny can be quite clever

FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org) pretty good resource does a little bit of the work for you

you are aware there is an edit post function

Wow. As if I needed another reason to not vote for Obama. I just got an email and apparently he is the anti-Christ.

The sad thing is that Christians keep sending me these. Why don't they read their Bibles first?

obama was just a few blocks from my office -maybe i should head out and find him then shave his head to confirm... :)

Sign me up! That sounds fun. Isn't that what OT forums are for though? Here are some front page threads in another forum I post in just for fun.

"My observations on the appearence of posteriors in the 1980s"

"Can you choke out a dog?"

"Goth's caught porking in a confession booth"

The sad thing is that that forum probably has some of the most intelligent posters I have ever seen on it. So I don't think the IQ rule will work.

Yea, I belong to some forums with awesomely intelligent members and the threads are ridiculous, lol.

Wow. As if I needed another reason to not vote for Obama. I just got an email and apparently he is the anti-Christ.

The sad thing is that Christians keep sending me these. Why don't they read their Bibles first?

:eek:

Not politics and religion in the same thread.

Don't you know the answer is in the bible!?

Don't you know the answer is in the bible!?
Which bible?

Based on what some thumpers spout -they clearly read a different version of it than was shoved down my throat in catecishm... :D

At one point we will withdraw troops...could I see it being something similiar to the way US troops are in Japan today much later in the future? yes. At one point though Americans have to realize that you cannot force democracy on a country. Democracy has to be a grassroots effort. The people have to demand it much like we did for the founding of our own country.

Not in our lifetime they won't. It'll be like S. Korea. The US is there forever.

Not in our lifetime they won't. It'll be like S. Korea. The US is there forever.

Hence the Japan reference

Which bible?

Based on what some thumpers spout -they clearly read a different version of it than was shoved down my throat in catecishm... :D

Now now Mal... don't go picking on contemporary christians just b/c of their amazing tolerance and open-mindedness. :rolleyes:

we can complain all we want about how bad the choices are but at the end of the day I'm thankful there are choices.A Clockwork Orange comes to mind here... is it really a free choice?

I mean, people view the election as being between two people... which, really it is because no one else will ever beat the primary parties; however, look at it this way since the early 1980s there have only been two families in power in the United States. If Hillary had won the primaries and went on to govern for two terms.... my god, it might as well be a dictatorship in the United States.

Really, it's the same tired policies with the same shit slinging election after election.

Whoah, politics! Yikes.

I am with Hillary all the way, she's a good person, comes from a good family, (and besides the messy politics that people like to stain her reputation with), she's an amazing woman with good values. I was so impressed with her leadership and her campaign. Gotta give the woman her props for holding it down amongst the vultures and men.

Go Hillary!! Get it girl! Obama would be a fool not to take you with him as VP. You're his only chance!!

:eek:

Not politics and religion in the same thread.

Don't you know the answer is in the bible!?

I'm really surprised you didn't say "the answer is in the stickied threads."

A Clockwork Orange comes to mind here... is it really a free choice?

I mean, people view the election as being between two people... which, really it is because no one else will ever beat the primary parties; however, look at it this way since the early 1980s there have only been two families in power in the United States. If Hillary had won the primaries and went on to govern for two terms.... my god, it might as well be a dictatorship in the United States.

Really, it's the same tired policies with the same shit slinging election after election.

Ok and would you prefer a true dictatorship? My feeling is if you want to complain about the system please do. Please vote at the very least ( I know this doesn't apply to you lol just a general sentiment) or actually get involved. Yeah money talks and so do last names but every once in a while someone gets sick enough of something and stands up and makes a change. There are so many examples of that throughout history. I'm not an idealist by any means but think of it this way...if someone was extremely overweight and they sat there looked in the mirror and complained every day yet continued to eat too much and exercise too little what would you say to them? When I was little on my bedroom wall there was a quote painted on it. "Be the change you wish to see in the world" You can't sit around and wait for someone else to come along and it can be so simple. For example (yes I know I'm on a tangent) when I'm on the subway it's rare that anyone will give up their seat for a pregnant woman. I always get up and offer my seat. Every once in a while I notice a look on a few faces, that look like a little lightbulb went off. I'm not saying this will inspire them to do it in the future but sometimes people need to see someone else do it first and then it occurs to them ya know what that is something I should do.

I'm really surprised you didn't say "the answer is in the stickied threads."

That was hilarious. LOL

I get most of my answers from fortune cookies. They never let me down. JK!

That was hilarious. LOL

I get most of my answers from fortune cookies. They never let me down. JK!

I get most of my answers by appending "in bed" to the end of fortune cookie fortunes.

I haven't read every post in this thread so I may be repeating someone else.... It doesn't have to be McCain or Obama, there are other parties with good candidates running. Check out Bob Barr (Libertarian Party nominee) and Chuck Baldwin (Constitution Party). Either of them would be a fine president. They may not win but if a large segment of the population votes for them, it sure will send a message to the "big" candidates.

I am Obama supporter. My concerns are with the economy and the war. Considering McCain will bring no change and has publicly made a fool himself with regard to domestic and foreign policy I think it's a pretty easy decision.

I can see how it can become very easy to be caught up with all the crap spewed out by the cable news networks but in reality they are not biased. Making issues out of something that has nothing to do with the average Americans everyday life (see Gay Marriage).FoxNews gets it pretty bad but they are all the same. Those pundits who actually questioned the intelligence about the invasion of Iraq were canned and conservative hosts were put in place (see Ashleigh Banfield).

Now with regard to everyone saying Obama is just a great speaker and nothing else. I'm assuming you only hear his stump speeches. Those speeches aren't intended to go into deep detail of the issues. That's what the debates were for and I'm pretty sure he covered all the issues there in great detail.

And with regard to experience. The 2 candidates are senators. Both have never balanced a budget. Their experience I would say is pretty even. I don't believe voting experience is really a great thing to judge a President, it really only shows what his true intentions as a Democrat or a Republican is. I mean if we went by voting experience for experience I think Big bob Byrd would be scoring a few more points here.

But this all the political BS that has been floating around in my head. Where he wins my vote is on the issues (also I'm a Yellow Dog Democrat ha!).

On health care:
- health care for those with pre-existing conditions
- mandatory health care for children
- subsidizing costs for those that cannot afford health care

Education:
- Moving towards the concept of college education as a 'right'
- $4,000 tuition credit for college students
- Increase investments in childhood education, increase funding

National security:
- withdraw troops from Iraq over a set timeline after discussing situation with advisors / military advisors
- End communication sanctions with Iran and Cuba, negotiate with these countries
- Build the military, focus military towards other sources of terrorism than Iraq

Immigration:
- offer a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants
- Reform immigration procedures

Sorry for the long post/rant.

Even as a lifelong Democrat I can't vote for a Cook County hack to lead our country......visions of Todd Stroger....reality.

I not thrilled with McCain either but I'm probably going to vote for him.

mccain prays for flooding victims god answers his prayers and sends obama with a shovel (http://politicalirony.com/2008/06/16/mccain-prays-for-flooding-victims-god-answers-his-prayers-and-sends-obama-with-a-shovel/)

How about Ralph Nader LOL

Seriously neither of the candidates appeal to me. I'm tired of both parties.
Republicans cater to special interest and Dems want our country to be socialist. I liked Obama until I listened to his speech last night in my home state. Now I have no idea who I'm going to vote for.

Obama does have the best plan to protect the great lakes from ballast water of ocean going vessels so I dunno. I'm on the fence.

How about Ralph Nader LOL

Seriously neither of the candidates appeal to me. I'm tired of both parties.
Republicans cater to special interest and Dems want our country to be socialist. I liked Obama until I listened to his speech last night in my home state. Now I have no idea who I'm going to vote for.

Obama does have the best plan to protect the great lakes from ballast water of ocean going vessels so I dunno. I'm on the fence.

Before HMO's we had socialized health care but the Republicans decided they would rather bleed middle class Americans dry. By your logic we already were and are socialists with our Social Security and Medicare. Obama's plan would basically act as an expanded Medicare plan with majority of funds coming from rolling back the Bush tax breaks to the wealthy.

Before HMO's we had socialized health care but the Republicans decided they would rather bleed middle class Americans dry. By your logic we already were and are socialists with our Social Security and Medicare. Obama's plan would basically act as an expanded Medicare plan with majority of funds coming from rolling back the Bush tax breaks to the wealthy.


while I agree with you on the middle class being sucked dry. Don't you feel that windfall profit taxes, and socialized medicine are a blow to capitalism?

Socialized medicine would be very bad for this country. The government will mess that up royally. I would not want them in charge of my health care.
While I feel we need a solution to rising health care costs I think socializing it would be a farce.

I was all for Hilary..and now I don't think I will vote at all. I MAY vote if Hilary is going to be Obama's VP..but honestly, I don't like him AT all...and think America messed up.

while I agree with you on the middle class being sucked dry. Don't you feel that windfall profit taxes, and socialized medicine are a blow to capitalism?

Socialized medicine would be very bad for this country. The government will mess that up royally. I would not want them in charge of my health care.
While I feel we need a solution to rising health care costs I think socializing it would be a farce.

Medicaid is one of the most efficient Government programs. So no I don't believe it will be messed up.

while I agree with you on the middle class being sucked dry. Don't you feel that windfall profit taxes, and socialized medicine are a blow to capitalism?

Socialized medicine would be very bad for this country. The government will mess that up royally. I would not want them in charge of my health care.
While I feel we need a solution to rising health care costs I think socializing it would be a farce.

I have AIDS and cardiomyopathy.I have since I was 21..I'm 38...I'm also a retired Marine on Tricare, government provided insurance...I have excellent speedy cheap healthcare..The biggest medical expense I have had since 1991 is the 9 dollar cost for name brand drugs and the 3 dollar cost for genetics..Tricare has never turned me down for a med...I have never been turned down for any treatment including experimental drugs..I get top of the line ,first class, high end drugs, all from government healthcare..I'm alive and healthy 18 years after diagnosis due to tricare and high quality treatments
No I don't think socialized med is a blow to capitalism..WE have free educations in the country and I would say health care should be as high a priority. I never hear anyone state that government funded schools are one step closer to socialism.

I have to seriously question the intelligence of anyone willing to waste a vote on McCain. I'm voting for Obama. I think the "experience" argument is silly, he is a Senator for goodness sake. People are getting caught up in these media blips.
Heres an idea, stop watching biased news.

Ron Paul 2008

I have AIDS and cariomyopathy.I have since I was 21..I'm 38...I'm also a retired Marine on Tricare, government provided insurance...I have excellent speedy cheap healthcare..The biggest medical expense I have had since 1991 is the 9 dollar cost for name brand drugs and the 3 dollar cost for genetics..Tricare has never turned me down for a med...I have never been turned down for any treatment including expiramental drugs..I get top of the line ,first class, high end drugs, all from government healthcare..I'm alive and healthy 18 years after diagnosis due to tricare and high quality treatments
No I don't think socialized med is a blow to capitalism..WE have free educations in the country and I would say health care should be as high a priority. I never hear anyone state that government funded schools are one step closer to socialism.

Indeed. Socialism is just a word used by the Republicans as a scare tactic. I'd love to see a candidate running on a platform to eliminate Police forces, Fire departments and public schooling. Universal health care is just a step forward towards progress.

McCain.

While there may seem to be a lot to criticize about Bush, Jr., he said in the beginning that his number one priority was to keep the U.S. safe. That he has done, and I for one am grateful.

I don't know enough about the war to comment on it, but I do know that if we bring a Democrat into the Presidency we will lose a lot of our military forces through means of government cutbacks which will put us at great risk in this volatile time. People need to look for some balance between the executive and legislative branches - if they don't they may be sorry.

Obama doesn't have nearly enough experience and would put us in great danger unless he miraculously hired on some experienced, intelligent staff that he, in fact, listened to and supported through action.

There are many other factors too, such as Obama being pro-choice. How can someone coherently speak on human rights when he is willing to destroy its sole foundation of human life itself?

<<sigh>> Tough topic. I won't even start on Obama's view point (or lack of view point) on our economy. Glad I had a chance to put my post in.

Tarazan :Angel_anim:

I have to seriously question the intelligence of anyone willing to waste a vote on McCain. I'm voting for Obama. I think the "experience" argument is silly, he is a Senator for goodness sake. People are getting caught up in these media blips.
Heres an idea, stop watching biased news.

I find it a shame when people say "unintelligent" people would vote for McCain. My parents are voting for McCain. My mother graduated from Georgetown and my father graduated from UNM, they are intelligent people. My father handed out fliers for RFK, my mother protested Vietnam. They aren't rich, dumb, white suburbians. My father is actually half Mexican, do you think that was easy for him growing up? They aren't midwestern, evangelical zealots. They are normal people, making their way through America. They are not smarter than the average bear nor any dumber. They have investigated both sides and have made their decision. The fact remains this is America, a place where the decision is yours and yours alone. Do not counter by calling people who vote differently than you less intelligent. It is a very unflattering, elitist misconception that the majority of Americans are taking on. And not just for Democrats, but also Republicans. Red, Blue, Green, whatever, get over that you have differences, know your beliefs and values and vote how you will.

I'm sorry, I'm stepping off my soap box.

Explore Obama's voting record before declaring he "was just a senator." Read the NY Times, they have had wonderful articles detailing Clinton, McCain and Obama's senatorial careers. In the case of Obama, there are many things that bring up caution for me. I feel as if he is a great, inspiring speaker but we have also heard inspiring speeches from others (George Bush post-Sept. 11th, don't act like you weren't inspired). He isn't someone I trust yet.

McCain, I don't really believe him yet. I don't think he is saying what he believes. His opinions on matters seem to be from those around him rather than him.

I'm undecided. I'm a democrat. I am young. I have a job. I voted for Kerry. I voted for Hillary. And in no way am I impressed with either candidate. We'll see how everything plays out before I cast my vote. I also think neither candidate will last two terms.

And bitch is STILL the new black.

McCain.

While there may seem to be a lot to criticize about Bush, Jr., he said in the beginning that his number one priority was to keep the U.S. safe. That he has done, and I for one am grateful.

I don't know enough about the war to comment on it, but I do know that if we bring a Democrat into the Presidency we will lose a lot of our military forces through means of government cutbacks which will put us at great risk in this volatile time. People need to look for some balance between the executive and legislative branches - if they don't they may be sorry.

Obama doesn't have nearly enough experience and would put us in great danger unless he miraculously hired on some experienced, intelligent staff that he, in fact, listened to and supported through action.

There are many other factors too, such as Obama being pro-choice. How can someone coherently speak on human rights when he is willing to destroy its sole foundation of human life itself?

<<sigh>> Tough topic. I won't even start on Obama's view point (or lack of view point) on our economy. Glad I had a chance to put my post in.

Tarazan :Angel_anim:

It's interesting you bring up the subject of experience. Because you could use the same argument against McCain.

Fact of the matter is McCain said it himself that he lacks foreign and domestic experience.

OBAMA 08 FOR SURE...THIS IS THE DEMS GODDAMN YEAR AND HOPEFULLY WE GET IT!!! We need a CHANGE...not the SAME OLD SHIT!

I'm totally lefty .almost extreme left. So I definately want something different.. only republican view i have the same is on the death penalty...but I'd probably be much more cruel..murdering a child? or anyone? You deserve to be murdered in the SAME MANNER. That's my opinion I'm sure other people, many other people disagree, but that's almost the only republican view I beleive.. haha

I'm economically conservative, I work in the defense industry, and I'm STILL voting for Obama.

Obama!!!!!!!!!!

Obama 08 all the way.

I am Obama supporter. My concerns are with the economy and the war. Considering McCain will bring no change and has publicly made a fool himself with regard to domestic and foreign policy I think it's a pretty easy decision.

I can see how it can become very easy to be caught up with all the crap spewed out by the cable news networks but in reality they are not biased. Making issues out of something that has nothing to do with the average Americans everyday life (see Gay Marriage).FoxNews gets it pretty bad but they are all the same. Those pundits who actually questioned the intelligence about the invasion of Iraq were canned and conservative hosts were put in place (see Ashleigh Banfield).

Now with regard to everyone saying Obama is just a great speaker and nothing else. I'm assuming you only hear his stump speeches. Those speeches aren't intended to go into deep detail of the issues. That's what the debates were for and I'm pretty sure he covered all the issues there in great detail.

And with regard to experience. The 2 candidates are senators. Both have never balanced a budget. Their experience I would say is pretty even. I don't believe voting experience is really a great thing to judge a President, it really only shows what his true intentions as a Democrat or a Republican is. I mean if we went by voting experience for experience I think Big bob Byrd would be scoring a few more points here.

But this all the political BS that has been floating around in my head. Where he wins my vote is on the issues (also I'm a Yellow Dog Democrat ha!).

On health care:
- health care for those with pre-existing conditions
- mandatory health care for children
- subsidizing costs for those that cannot afford health care

Education:
- Moving towards the concept of college education as a 'right'
- $4,000 tuition credit for college students
- Increase investments in childhood education, increase funding

National security:
- withdraw troops from Iraq over a set timeline after discussing situation with advisors / military advisors
- End communication sanctions with Iran and Cuba, negotiate with these countries
- Build the military, focus military towards other sources of terrorism than Iraq

Immigration:
- offer a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants
- Reform immigration procedures

Sorry for the long post/rant.

Amen. That's why he's getting my vote. I started out as a die-hard Hillary supporter, but I always said that whoever got the Dem nomination (barring Jesse Jackson) would get my vote. I wasn't thrilled with Obama until I watched the convention last week. I was very impressed with him, Michelle and Biden. I think he's very intelligent, has dignity, courage and the qualities a successful leader needs. And I agree with him on the issues. While I have the utmost respect for McCain as a great war hero, I believe as president he'd further ruin our country.

And as to Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama being bitches, that comment really pisses me off. If a woman is intelligent, strong and speaks her mind, she's a bitch. If a man does that he's just a man. I guess we women should just be quiet, submissive doormats. NOT!! Welcome to the 21st century.

I don't want either of them to win, they both suck.

I'd vote for McCain if I lived in the US. However I don't, so I'm just going to voice that and run out of the thread before I get barked at.

Amen. That's why he's getting my vote. I started out as a die-hard Hillary supporter, but I always said that whoever got the Dem nomination (barring Jesse Jackson) would get my vote. I wasn't thrilled with Obama until I watched the convention last week. I was very impressed with him, Michelle and Biden. I think he's very intelligent, has dignity, courage and the qualities a successful leader needs. And I agree with him on the issues. While I have the utmost respect for McCain as a great war hero, I believe as president he'd further ruin our country.

And as to Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama being bitches, that comment really pisses me off. If a woman is intelligent, strong and speaks her mind, she's a bitch. If a man does that he's just a man. I guess we women should just be quiet, submissive doormats. NOT!! Welcome to the 21st century.

I also was a Hillary supporter. The way I see it, when you call Hillary or Michelle bitches you only appear threatened. Basically threatened by a strong woman. That is why Hillary has been attacked by the right unmercifully. That's my point of view as a dude.

I am the lone Democrat in an all Republican office and it gets hard when I heard someone tell my boss's daughter that all liberals are terrorists. Last time I checked I baked cookies... I wasn't toting any explosives in my purse. And just now, our accountant has to go pay an overdue bill at GA Power for our company and she goes, "I'm going to go stand in line with all the people who have their power shut off because they can't afford their bill but can afford their Barack Obama t-shirt." These are the same people in my office who complain about the cost of gas while they drive their gas guzzlers and I barely drive my basic 34 mile per gallon car... I ride public transit 85% of the time. And they claim that Obama wants to depend on Middle East oil yet it's always been a Democrat trying to convince people to stop relying on oil and gas. And they say that John McCain served our country in war and Barack didn't. Well sorry the man isn't old enough and why was this small peas eight years ago when McCain was passed over for nomination by someone who used his father's political ties to dodge the draft. And you know what, I still don't give a shit that Palin's daughter is preg, but you can tout morals as much as you want. Abstinence only education doesn't work. Didn't work in the Palin household, and it's not working in Alaska since it's a state with considerable progression in teen STDs. Maybe if kids knew that sex can give blisters on your private parts it might deter them just a little bit.

I'm not American, but if I were, I'd vote for Obama.

And just now, our accountant has to go pay an overdue bill at GA Power for our company and she goes, "I'm going to go stand in line with all the people who have their power shut off because they can't afford their bill but can afford their Barack Obama t-shirt."

Not to mention, for how much Mitt Romney went off about the Elitest Liberal Washington last night, I think that statement above is pretty elite. And I also find it funny that for being elite during the majority of the last 8 years Republicans have been in control of the government in Washington. And funny that Palin accused Obama of snubbing her house for not being posh enough (can someone send me a link where he said that, btw?), that her running mate has several houses.

The fact that this thread implies only 2 candidates running makes me sick. I vote for neither of them and will probably seek out a third party candidate that represents what this country is supposed to be.

These guys will not be good leaders.

Obama, we neeed a democrat in office!!!

The fact that this thread implies only 2 candidates running makes me sick. I vote for neither of them and will probably seek out a third party candidate that represents what this country is supposed to be.

These guys will not be good leaders.

Maybe I understand that the process is designed now to keep the influence of a 3rd party candidate to a minimal. Is it right, probably not, but to think Bob Barr, Ron Paul or Nader will be good leaders not only makes me sick but makes laugh.

Military family here for Obama!!!!

But honestly, this is the best our country has to offer?

McSame and his crazy FLDS looking woman are vile to me.

Obama is the best our country has offered us in eight years. I'm ready for some REAL freedom. Not freedom for bible thumping america.

Obama is no more than a racial pop icon.People need to look into where Obama gets all his funding. He is no different than any other canidate minus his skin color. It's not like all the hippies and enviromentalists got millions of dollars this year to fund him.


McCain has a 1 in 3 chance of dieing first term (actuary numbers)


I dont want a pop sensation and I dont want a Pitbull with lipstick on (Lord knows we have had enough "bull"ying for 8 years)


I dont know if this was mentioned yet, but Palin charged Rape victims for there examination kits. So.... I could never vote for anything she is a part of.


I am taking the fair approach this election. Heads its Obama, Tails its an Independent

I think the Brits have it right when it comes to government. Since I know someone will think (well why dont you move there). I plan on getting my MBA which will allow me to live there without a work visa for 2 years with an extension of 3 years if I do not find a job. I just need to convince my wifey.

I don't like either.

If Ron Paul still had a chance I'd be voting for him.

I don't like either.

If Ron Paul still had a chance I'd be voting for him.

He was very good in the prelim's I thought. I was to hard on corporate america to ever have a chance though.

Maybe I understand that the process is designed now to keep the influence of a 3rd party candidate to a minimal. Is it right, probably not, but to think Bob Barr, Ron Paul or Nader will be good leaders not only makes me sick but makes laugh.


How are any of the guys you mentioned less qualified than the two major candidates? If anything I rather have someone with less professional political experience run the country. If you go back to when our country began all the politicians were normal people. They were farmers or plantation owners before anything else. They joined politics to help their country, not to make money. We need someone in office that represents the majority of the country, not someone that supports the ideas of a political party. I dont want a career politician. Most of the presidents that I consider to have been great leaders were the John Adams, Thomas Jeffersons, Abe Lincolns all of whom were people first politicians second.

I am not saying I support Ron Paul or any of the candidates you mentioned, but I dont think you should discredit them so quickly when you look at how unqualified the two major candidates really are.

How are any of the guys you mentioned less qualified than the two major candidates? If anything I rather have someone with less professional political experience run the country. If you go back to when our country began all the politicians were normal people. They were farmers or plantation owners before anything else. They joined politics to help their country, not to make money. We need someone in office that represents the majority of the country, not someone that supports the ideas of a political party. I dont want a career politician. Most of the presidents that I consider to have been great leaders were the John Adams, Thomas Jeffersons, Abe Lincolns all of whom were people first politicians second.

I am not saying I support Ron Paul or any of the candidates you mentioned, but I dont think you should discredit them so quickly when you look at how unqualified the two major candidates really are.

I believe the Democrats have selected someone who does represent the majority of the people. Obama wants to help the middle class his tax plan. This will cut taxes on 150 million Americans. The Democrats have also raised the minimum wage helping those people in the lower class. I could go on but I feel like I'm wasting my time. Just don't go telling me that political parties don't represent the majority of America. Maybe your just out of touch with the majority of America.

Obamaism is just as bad a disease as McCainism.

Lower taxes, great. Raise minimum wage, great. But that is one issue. I cannot vote for him because of, what he calls, Civil Rights. Giving certain groups of people more chances than other groups of people. Hurting one groups chances at college so that another group can get in easier. He is not for equality. But hey, we all have our opinions.

I'll probably vote for Stephen Colbert. :)

I wasn't sure who I'd vote for until McCain chose Caribou Barbie as his running mate.

Now I'll be voting for Obama.

Of course, I'm in Texas so my vote won't mean shit...but I'll vote anyway.

Obamaism is just as bad a disease as McCainism.

Lower taxes, great. Raise minimum wage, great. But that is one issue. I cannot vote for him because of, what he calls, Civil Rights. Giving certain groups of people more chances than other groups of people. Hurting one groups chances at college so that another group can get in easier. He is not for equality. But hey, we all have our opinions.

I'll probably vote for Stephen Colbert. :)


My Wife and I were going to write in "Jesus" just for laughs. We dont want either one in.

Obama does not represent us and neither does Palin.:smash:

Obamaism is just as bad a disease as McCainism.

Lower taxes, great. Raise minimum wage, great. But that is one issue. I cannot vote for him because of, what he calls, Civil Rights. Giving certain groups of people more chances than other groups of people. Hurting one groups chances at college so that another group can get in easier. He is not for equality. But hey, we all have our opinions.

I'll probably vote for Stephen Colbert. :)

The largest group to suffer from inequality in this country is women. The largest group to benefit from legislation supporting equality is women. What is the majority of the population in America? Women. Which party has fought for the equal wage for women? Democrats. Who has fought to deny women an equal wage? Republicans, like McCain. Don't talk to me about equality because again you seem to be out of touch.

I didnt say I have anything against equality. I said that his stance is not to bring equality. He wants to cripple certain groups of people to help other groups of people. That is BS. That is what affirmitive action does and it's ridiculous.

And no, not everyone should be paid equally for the same job. It comes down to ability and the strength of the company. There are more factors to look at than salary alone when determining the state of equality in the country.

I am not out of touch, you just seem to be an Obama fan and that is fine. I have no problem with it, but obviously you don't like different opinions.

I didnt say I have anything against equality. I said that his stance is not to bring equality. He wants to cripple certain groups of people to help other groups of people. That is BS. That is what affirmitive action does and it's ridiculous.

And no, not everyone should be paid equally for the same job. It comes down to ability and the strength of the company. There are more factors to look at than salary alone when determining the state of equality in the country.

I am not out of touch, you just seem to be an Obama fan and that is fine. I have no problem with it, but obviously you don't like different opinions.

I have no problem with different opinions. I have a problem when people try to speak for the majority of America and seem to be out of touch with those people and the issues.

I dont see how I am out of touch for disagreeing with what he plans to do. Either it's a good plan or a bad plan. I happen to think it is a bad plan. Honestly, every candidate has the same basic ideas about things like stimulating the economy, making sure everyone is awarded the same opportunities and so on and so on. The differences come in how they plan to get there. I believe both candidates will hurt the country more than help the country.

Not to sound cynical but the majority of the voters elected Bush for two terms. I didn't vote for him at all. Does me being out of touch with America then mean I was wrong? No. It means that I was able to see something I didnt like and I see things I dont like in the two major candidates. Just something to think about.

You've GOT to be freaking kidding me. McCain is full of shit. So is Palin. There's no WAY they could lead the nation in a positive direction.

I sincerely dislike people who think they speak for the majority of America, when they honestly have no reason to like one side other than people around them like that person.

Ah, I guess blissful ignorance is better for some people than the bitter truth.

:puke:McCain makes me nauseous.

You've GOT to be freaking kidding me. McCain is full of shit. So is Palin. There's no WAY they could lead the nation in a positive direction.

I sincerely dislike people who think they speak for the majority of America, when they honestly have no reason to like one side other than people around them like that person.

Ah, I guess blissful ignorance is better for some people than the bitter truth.

:puke:McCain makes me nauseous.



Do you think you speak for the majority?


You think voting for McCain is blissful ignorance?


Are you one of those blissfully ignorant "I am a good person so I am voting for a black man"


If not please describe for me a few of the policies Obama is bringing to the table that you think will make him the great leader and change this country around.

Changing the skin color of the president is not the real change this country needs.


I know I said earlier I wont support McCain because of Palin's actions towards rape victims. It is just your response is the typical response that all these blindly "Obama 2008" people are giving.

Do you think you speak for the majority?


You think voting for McCain is blissful ignorance?


Are you one of those blissfully ignorant "I am a good person so I am voting for a black man"


If not please describe for me a few of the policies Obama is bringing to the table that you think will make him the great leader and change this country around.

Changing the skin color of the president is not the real change this country needs.


I know I said earlier I wont support McCain because of Palin's actions towards rape victims. It is just your response is the typical response that all these blindly "Obama 2008" people are giving.

You really think this is about race? Have you been in a coma? Have you seen the garbage the Republicans have done in the past 8 years? That's good enough reason to vote Democrat. But go ahead and try to insult peoples intelligence with your obvious ignorance, it's very entertaining :)